Ok, let’s define terms: I took you to be saying Morris had the same reputation as the ultimate big game starter in Detroit as he did by the end of his career. That’s not true. He was viewed as an ace, but the big game mystique wasn’t a thing until 1991, when he started 3 games in the World Series*

Posted on September 2, 2026 at 02:11:30 PM by Brad

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For your consideration: Alan Trammell vs Barry Larkin. - By brick September 2, 2026 at 01:25:04 PM
- Baseball has been very good to me - JOSE RIJO* - By Cincywolve September 2, 2026 at 02:27:47 PM
- Great stats but your conclusion is asinine - By Rich September 2, 2026 at 01:32:18 PM
  - If Morris's fame hurt Trammell, it was all after he had left the Tigers and pitched with the Twins. That's his most "famous" time- when he pitched a CG shutout vs. the Braves in the WS.* - By mjhollen September 2, 2026 at 03:59:58 PM
  - For some reason Larkin was a guy who had star buzz around himra from the beginning of his career in a way that Trammell didn't T - By Paul September 2, 2026 at 02:05:24 PM
    - I think brick is fractionally correct in that Trammell shared the spotlight in Detroit with Whitaker, Gibson, Morris and Parrish (not to mention the crazy Willie Hernandez year). Larkin in Cincinnati was pretty much it... - By Rich September 2, 2026 at 02:07:47 PM
      - Up to 91, Eric Davis was the perceived star on the Reds.* - By MasterBates September 2, 2026 at 02:21:22 PM
        
        Eric Davis and the bullpen. Chris Sabo got attention for his goggles * - By brick September 2, 2026 at 02:23:17 PM
        
        IIRC, Hal Morris was also a dude. He and Sabo (and Larkin), are M alums.* - By BigLake September 2, 2026 at 02:32:34 PM
  - Disagree with your assessment of the media perception, both contemporaneously and subsequently - By brick September 2, 2026 at 02:02:09 PM
    - You provide zero evidence.* - By Rich September 2, 2026 at 02:05:59 PM
      - I can post article highlighting Morris, but here’s the thing; even with nothing more, my explanation fits the data better than any other explanation - By brick September 2, 2026 at 02:24:57 PM
        
        What credit are you talking about? His HOF Old Timer election 30 years later?* - By Rich September 2, 2026 at 02:35:02 PM
  - Following up, here are the Tigers of the Year from 78-92 (Tiger MVP voted by local media) - By Rich September 2, 2026 at 01:53:24 PM
  - The first tier was smaller than that: Gibson, Tram, Morris. And of that group Morris was the most celebrated during the pre-analytics era. Agree that brick’s conclusion was a reach, tho** - By Brad September 2, 2026 at 01:43:22 PM
    - Parrish was more celebrated than Gibson nationally. Even locally. Gibson never made an All Star game. Parrish was the best catcher in the AL for a few years* - By Rich September 2, 2026 at 01:46:03 PM
      - Not true. Gibson was 6th in MVP voting in 1984 (4th among position players). Parrish was 16th. Also, Gibson’s WAR shouldn’t even have had him in the top-15. Tram’s was 6.8 that year (he arguably should have been AL MVP). Gibson got more attention from fans/the media b/c he was a charismatic … - By Brad September 2, 2026 at 01:53:19 PM
        
        Gibson had charisma and local following but OTOH Parrish was an 8 time All Star and Gibson was selected zero times. So how well was he really viewed?* - By Rich September 2, 2026 at 01:59:47 PM
        
        The options for all star catchers in the AL in the 80s were unusually shitty: Rich German, Terry Kennedy, Matt f’in Nokes, Tim Laudner, Terry Steinbaxh, etc. Meanwhile Gibson was competing with Reggie Jackson, Winfield, Puckett, Rickey Henderson, Jim Rice, Canseco, Baines…** - By Brad September 2, 2026 at 02:28:22 PM
        
        Carlton Fisk.* - By MasterBates September 2, 2026 at 02:33:05 PM
  - Disagree, perception was that Morris was a big game pitcher and a bulldog which over shadowed the actual stats. That was local and national.* - By MasterBates September 2, 2026 at 01:42:35 PM
    - That perception came about later in his career. Do you think that perception impacted HoF voting for anyone other than Morris himself, tho?* - By Brad September 2, 2026 at 01:45:04 PM
      - That is incorrect, he was considered that while on the Tigers. Did it help others? Not off the top of my head, Schilling had a similar perception.* - By MasterBates September 2, 2026 at 01:53:57 PM
        
        Ok, let’s define terms: I took you to be saying Morris had the same reputation as the ultimate big game starter in Detroit as he did by the end of his career. That’s not true. He was viewed as an ace, but the big game mystique wasn’t a thing until 1991, when he started 3 games in the World Series* - By Brad September 2, 2026 at 02:11:30 PM
        
        He was viewed as a bulldog but Gibson had a similar perception. Also Parrish and Trammell were viewed as tremendous leaders. Whitaker, Lemon, Petry, et al not in the same way* - By Rich September 2, 2026 at 01:55:33 PM
      - Morris didn't make it in in the regular 15 year period either. * - By Rich September 2, 2026 at 01:46:46 PM
    - That's different than saying he overshadowed Trammell. Trammell was the WS MVP in 84! * - By Rich September 2, 2026 at 01:45:00 PM
      - Morris mythology is as much a product of his post-Tigers’ career as anything* - By Brad September 2, 2026 at 01:46:14 PM

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